Actor Damien Gerard, who is known for his work in Call of Duty: Black Ops War and most prominently on the hit HBO Max show Our Flag Means Death, recently joined me in a discussion about the importance of fanfiction. Fanfiction, and fandom culture in general, has long been surrounded by stigma – and to that, storytellers like Gerard agree that this needs to be changed. In this interview, I was lucky enough to sit down with him and hear his incredibly thoughtful insights on the topic. Read the full conversation below!
(Image source: Film Affinity)
Zahrah Ahmad: Thank you so much for joining me today! You played Father Teach in Our Flag Means Death, and since the show aired you have actively been interacting with the fans, sharing your own excitement about the show, and even mentioned in a social media post that you used to write fanfic yourself. As a long time reader and writer of fanfic myself, I think it’s so important to give fanfiction the credence it deserves, as there are many misconceptions that it is amateurish, low quality, or “lesser than”. But I’m of the belief that fanfic can be an amazing channel for writers and readers (particularly queer writers and readers) to explore worlds and their imagination.
The way the OFMD cast and crew have been interacting with fans – whether it’s by engaging with fanart, encouraging fanfic, and more – is incredible, and relatively rare to see from show creators/actors. How do you think this has helped to shape the fandom?
Damien Gerard: It’s basically said to the fans and people that watch the show that you don’t have to hide your talents anymore. You can actually be 100% your true authentic self within the fandom of this particular show. Because we’re just like you. We are you. I mean, I used to write fanfiction, I’m a role player, and everybody out there is like, “Oh my god, I do this too but I don’t tell people because they think I’m a nerd!” and I’m like, “So what? Be a nerd, be a geek!” So I think it’s allowed the fans to open up and be themselves, and just be authentic and not have to stress about hiding a part of them away, [like] a lot of these people who have been marginalized for whatever reason have had to do for many, many years. Just having that creative outlet that’s loved by everybody on the show gives them that validation that I think they’ve been looking for.
ZA: Absolutely. I think it’s so true that there have been shows in the past where the creators don’t get involved in the fanfic world, or they shun it, so I think the reason there is such an onslaught of fanfic and fanart for OFMD is… well, first of all, the show is amazing, the representation is incredible, but also everyone on the show is like “Yes, please, do this! Give us more!” And it’s so refreshing to see that.
For me, reading fanfic means getting to see how other writers are building on the characters I love and telling new stories with them. As a writer, fanfic allows me to hone my skills without needing to build my own worlds from scratch.
What do you think the importance of fanfiction is?
DG: Depending on how you want to look at fanfiction, fanfiction could be any fiction written about the characters that doesn’t come from the pen of the original writer. So if you look at it that way, after Ian Fleming died, every single James Bond book that’s been produced is fanfiction. If you look at all of the Star Trek books out there – and there’s a ton of them, I know because I’ve got most of them – they’re all written by different authors! Gene Roddenberry doesn’t write them, so they’re kind of fanfiction. The only difference is it’s fanfiction that’s been embraced by either the Broccoli Foundation (Cubby Broccoli, his family for James Bond) or the Roddenberry Foundation for Star Trek. But effectively, it’s fanfiction. These people have written about these characters because they want to write about these characters! There are blurred lines going back decades on fanfiction.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with writing fanfiction. If people have a problem with other people writing fanfiction, that doesn’t say anything about the writers. That says something about them. So, fanfiction is vitally important. Creators get ideas – George R.R. Martin asks the fans about historical accuracies in his show because he can’t remember everything he’s written, but he knows his fanbase can, because his fanbase are into it hugely. There’s a lot of Game of Thrones fanfiction out there, and he embraces and talks to all these people. Fanfiction is vital in the industry, for allowing that creativity and allowing people to build on the worlds that already exist, [and] creators take ideas from fanfiction and have done for decades and decades. We wouldn’t have Star Trek the original series – because at the end of Series 2, I think they were going to can it – but the fans gave such an uproar that they did a Series 3, and now we have the greater Star Trek world.
Fanfiction is the lifeblood of the industry. Without it, we would lose so many wonderful franchises and genres and stories from the authors. Fanfiction doesn’t just sit below a TV show; it sits alongside it. And I applaud anybody who writes fanfiction, whether they add in new characters, or take established characters, whatever they decide to do. Because they love these characters so much that they want to write about them. And what bigger honour for the original author and the actors who play these roles than to have somebody write about your character? For me, it was huge. I’ve never had that before, and I felt emotional, because somebody had taken the time to write about my little character. I’m only a small role. To have that acknowledgment from people I consider my peers and my contemporaries, for me was huge. So, what importance does fanfiction have? The most importance.
And what bigger honour [is there] for the original author and the actors who play these roles than to have somebody write about your character?
ZA: That’s such a great answer. The way that some people view fanfiction is a very limited definition of it a lot of the times, and it’s so true that all of these films, shows, and books build on a world that has already been established, or doing an adaptation – for example, all the Sherlock Holmes adaptations are kind of fanfics in their own right – so I think viewing it in that way will help people understand that fanfiction is not just this niche definition that you may think it is.
That brings me to my next question. Why do you think fanfiction gets a bad rap? One argument surrounds canon vs. fanon, where some people can’t get behind the idea of reading something that isn’t part of the canon. Another is that some think fanfic is only comprised of “smutty” content (i.e. sexually graphic) works, and are uncomfortable than that. I personally think those views are reductive and disregard the infinite opportunity for creativity.
DG: I mean, if you look at a lot of mainstream books that have graphic depictions of violence or sex in them – take American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis. Fantastic book, but there are some very graphic acts of violence and sex in that book. But everybody lauds it because Bret Easton Ellis is an established writer with awards under his belt and so on and so forth. And then you’ll get fanfiction that might have less graphic violence and sex in them, but everybody’s disgusted by it. Why’s that? What is the difference – purely because this person isn’t a famous person, and that person is? Because if that is the reason, that is a terrible, terrible reason. Okay, the fanfic writer might be starting out on their career, and they might not have honed their skills yet, and they might just be trying or experimenting with their writing style, and maybe they’re not there yet. But practice makes perfect! I bet when Bret Easton Ellis started out, he was a terrible writer too. Nobody is born an excellent writer, so that argument doesn’t hold up either.
I think what it is, is people have these preconceived notions that are fed to them by society that they don’t have any cognizant thought of or belief in themselves, and they just go with that. “Oh, fanfiction is always porn, so therefore it is a second-class citizen.” That’s rubbish; just look at all the pornography in George R.R. Martin’s books, and the fanfiction echoes that. So should the fanfiction be classed as second class purely because it has similar levels of violence and sex in it that he has in his own books? I mean, that’s ridiculous! These arguments are [generally] trotted out by older people. Not younger people, let’s be clear about this: it’s generally older people who have grown up in a very repressive society where writing about violence and sex – you don’t do that. You fade to black; you gloss over everything. But there’s no reason why you should do that. Art is often a reflection of society. Not always, but in some of the themes and methods and stories that are told in art, it’s a reflection of how the writer sees society. So if there’s a lot of violence and sex in their writing, that doesn’t mean that they are depraved or weird. It could be that they’re reflecting what they see in society. Or it could be they’re reflecting what they’ve experienced in their own little microcosm world of their community, society, etc. So – it is reductive. And if these people are uncomfortable by fanfiction, as I said previously, it says more about them than it does the writer and fanfiction themselves.
ZA: So true. And I would love to hear your thoughts on the canon vs. fanon thing. I understand those who are like, “I genuinely can’t behind this”, but it’s interesting because it’s all fictional. So for me, if I’m reading a really good and compelling fanfiction, that can have the same impact on me as the source material itself.
DG: So literally, the only difference between canon and fanon is “canon” is what was written by the show’s writers, or the author etc., and that’s really the only difference. If you are a role-player, DM storyteller, or GM, you write your own worlds. You create your own worlds. Or, you’ll take an established world, like in DND you’ve got the Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, things like that – you take these already established worlds and you build your stories within them. And nobody ever complains that GMs or roleplaying games are writing fanon compared to say, [Tracy] Hickman and [Margaret] Weis who write the Dragonlance books. So, the only difference between canon and fanon is that you’ll get a lot more pockets of fan made content that bear no relation to other fan made content all over the world, that are kind of latched on around the canon content. If in your world, you want Thanos to go off and do this, or you want Dr. Strange to be this, that, or the other, there’s no reason why you can’t do that. As I said previously, creators sometimes take fan made content and weave it into their stories, if it’s particularly good or it strikes a nerve with them. So, fan content can become canon. It has happened. There is a huge blurring of lines between canon and fanon, but because fan content – like, if somebody writes fan content in Singapore, I might never hear about it. Or if that spreads out into Europe and I do kind of latch onto it, it might not gel with what I’ve written. But that doesn’t make what they’ve written any less viable than what I’ve written, or even more so.
ZA: I totally agree. Oftentimes, creators want that viewership of their work, but don’t take in the importance of the feedback they’re getting and the way people are engaging with that content, i.e. doing fanart/fiction. So again, something so refreshing about OFMD is that it is appreciated by all of you, and it’s kind of sad that that’s not more common.
DG: I agree! I see fanfiction as a love letter to whatever it’s based on. And there are many things in mainstream media – take The Orville. Try telling me that’s not a love letter to Star Trek. But all it is, is it’s written by someone who’s famous and already has an established career. That’s the difference. The Orville is fanfic to Star Trek, I mean it just is!
ZA: Yes! And hopefully conversations like this will help to get this topic moving in a positive direction, and inspire more fandoms and the creators of fandoms to accept it a little more.
DG: And embrace it completely! Embrace it. I would love to see George R.R. Martin include some of the fan made content in some of his next books, or David Jenkins to include some of the fanart or fanfic in the next series of OFMD. That’ll be incredible, it validates everything that people do and the more we can make this mainstream, the less sort of stupid stigma is going to surround it.
ZA: It definitely makes it feel more like a community and connects us all, instead of making that separation so distinct. Because isn’t the whole purpose of art to connect all of us together? So, it’s pretty incredible, and I know OFMD has impacted so many lives, including my own, in so many ways.
DG: And mine!
ZA: Yes! In a show that includes so much representation and diversity, OFMD has inspired people all around the world to create, whether it’s art, video, fanfic, music, fashion, and so much more. And the OFMD cast and crew have done such an amazing job in making the fans feel seen, heard, and validated, instead of shamed or made to feel silly. So I just wanted to say thank you for being a part of that – and for joining me today, it’s amazing you’ve made yourself so accessible to the fans!
DG: Thank you for having me. I’ve always said, I like to help people. I got into acting because I actually want to help people. I want to be playing a character, who’s going through some issues or problems and gets out of it on the other side, and if someone in the audience watching me is going through the same problem and says “If he can do it, I can do it,” then my whole life is worth it. I want to be helpful, and I want to engage. And I want to be social. So I’m very grateful for the offer and opportunity.
ZA: Amazing! Any final thoughts you wanted to add?
DG: I would just like to say to everybody out there, if you are a fanfic writer, don’t hold your head in shame. Lift it up, use your beautiful voices to talk about all of the issues that mean something to you, to write about all of these characters, to be your true authentic self. If you need to live through your fanfiction for the time being because you don’t feel safe living as who you are, do it. I will embrace it, I will read it, I know the showrunners and the rest of the cast and crew will too. Be your beautiful authentic selves.
If you are a fanfic writer, don’t hold your head in shame. Lift it up, use your beautiful voices to talk about all of the issues that mean something to you, to write about all of these characters, [and] to be your true authentic self.
View the full video of the interview below!
You can watch Damien Gerard’s performance as Father Teach in the HBO Max Original Our Flag Means Death. Additionally, follow him on Twitter and Instagram to keep up with his career, life updates, and more!
~ Z ~
